Former president Donald Trump has warned the state of New York that businesses will flee if the civil fraud charges levied against him aren’t overturned. But New York’s governor has promised that other businesses have nothing to worry about. So, is there cause for concern? Former investment banker Carol Roth joins Glenn to explain why this ruling should be “horrifying for everybody who is in business.” Plus, she addresses whether conservatives should celebrate as progressive organizations appear to backtrack on their woke agendas, or whether this is all an election season ploy.
TranscriptBelow is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Carol Roth, a former New York Wall Street banker, who, you know, woke up and went, what am I -- am I on the wrong side.
And she has done an awful lot of good. She's the author now, of, you will own nothing. Former investment banker. I have her on, because I want to talk to her about BlackRock's new voting system.
But she has a couple of things I want to let you know.
First, she has a new newsletter out.
CarolRoth.com/news. Sign up for it. CarolRoth.com/news.
Carol, I wanted to start with you, because you are a former New York investment banker.
What is the fallout going to be on this Donald Trump conviction and 355 million dollar fine?
Never been done before, not even with the Gambino crime family they never did this.
CAROL: Yeah. Okay. So just to be correct, San Francisco investment banker, because I don't want to lump myself with all of those New York investment bankers.
GLENN: Like that's any better.
(laughter)
CAROL: So the complications of this are horrifying for everybody who is in business.
When you think about presenting your company in the best light, whether it is a startup firm, a venture Capitol firm.
A private equity firm.
Real estate holdings.
Any publicly or privately held company, that has adjusted EBITA.
They are saying, here's what we think the business is. But we will put this in the best light.
And what this particular judgment has done, in my opinion, has said, even if somebody hasn't gotten hurt.
Even if the bank that you presented this to.
Or the investor said, hey, we made a ton of money. We're not a counterparty to this suit.
That the state can come in and say, well, we don't think this is right. We've done our own calculations. We see that you have some numbers that you got wrong here, and we are going to charge you with fraud civilly. Not criminally. Civilly.
And then put in some insane judgment, that is basically like sitting your finger in there. And seeing which way the wind blows. Because there is no actual damages.
The bank has said, that they were not victimized, that they made a ton of these.
And so who really is the counterparty here.
They are saying, there is some ill-gotten gain. They made this up.
And this has an incredibly disturbing implication, for any business.
If this is the standard, then basically, I would say, every business in the United States, somebody needs to be thrown in jail. And assessed hundreds of millions of dollars.
Because this happens throughout all business.
GLENN: Well, I will tell you, if Elon Musk were still in California, I bet he would be shaking in his boots. Because if this can happen in New York, it can happen in California.
And they're already going after him, with all kinds of stuff. Even if you're on the right side currently, if your company ever falls against the state, on anything, you're opening yourself for the end.
I mean, how -- how much of an impact will this have, on businesses being and locating themselves in New York?
CAROL: Well, that's the interesting question. Because everybody thinks that it can't happen to them.
Oh, it's Donald Trump. He's done all of these things that we've heard about in the media. This can never happen to me. And there's a lot of ego and a lot of hubris, particularly with the financial services and other companies that are based in New York City.
We have seen some level of exodus based on crime, taxes. And other decisions.
Obviously, the ones who have been savvy, have already gotten out of there. Started to decouple from New York.
But I think the -- when something like this happens, they see this big personality, and they say, it can't happen to me.
But why not?
Why can't it happen to you?
If you go against whatever the narrative is.
If you go against the state. And, you know, you say something, that they don't like. This is -- you know, as we've talked about before. Sort of a soft form of social credit.
You are not aligned with what we want. So we will find ways to penalize you, financially.
GLENN: It's terrible.
CAROL: And it is absolutely terrifying.
GLENN: All right. So let me talk to you here. We have about six minutes here to talk about this.
CAROL: Okay.
GLENN: Justin Haskins. Who is my cowriter of my book.
We talk about ESG and all of this stuff. All the time.
Go back and forth.
He's much -- if you think I'm a pessimist.
He's more of a pessimist.
He wrote to me the other day. Glenn, this is great news.
The Europe ESG collapse. And now companies are getting out. Even BlackRock says they're getting out of it.
And I said, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, whoa.
We're entering the time of an election. And this is also what every progressive institution does.
They are exposed.
Oh, we're not going to do that with your gas stove.
And then they do it, anyway, in another form.
Are you -- I mean, we should celebrate that we have them on the ropes. But we believe so let the pressure up. We have to pursue them.
Because they're trying to make an escape.
CAROL: Yeah. I think this is the absolute perfect analogy. And I know Justin and we have conversations offline as well about all this stuff.
And I do think there are a lot of things to celebrate.
Because of the work that you and Justin have done, Glenn.
Your audience has done in raising awareness.
Some of these state level leadership. We are seeing a lot of shifts happening. You know, we saw JPMorgan. Pimco. State Street. All extract themselves from the climate 100-plus pledge, which is basically financial institutions. Cracking down on companies. And trying to push them into this ESG, these directives. And so we just saw that happen this week. And part of that is because they are afraid of the legislation, and -- and being hit with lawsuits. In fact, BlackRock, which shifted from the US being part of it. To just Europe being part of it.
Within -- they cited lawsuits. Potential lawsuits, as one of the concerns. So this is -- come from The New York Times. Main Street media. They are concerned, but it's not fluff.
And, you know, that goes back to this new BlackRock voting initiative. Proxy voting initiative.
Where they don't want to be the ones to take the blame. And say, well, we're not pushing this. You're voting for it.
Instead of, you know, going ahead, and giving you the ultimate choice on how to vote.
They will give you options. But of their options, almost all of them has to do -- I know this will shock you, Glenn. With climate or climate impact. Or environment.
Social responsibility.
GLENN: Wow. So I could have Soviet communism, Chinese communism, or --
CAROL: Or North Korean.
GLENN: Or North Korean communism. But I can choose. I can choose. Wow. That's quite a choice.
CAROL: Yeah. And it's -- I was going to say --
GLENN: Go ahead.
CAROL: I was going to say. The way they're doing it is obviously, they've been paying attention to your program. Because they're trying to really manipulate you in one direction or another.
They have this one choice, that's called the ISS Catholic faith-based policy.
So you're going, oh, okay. That's great. That's going to be aligned potentially with my rales. And patriotic values. But what they say is, quote, it's aligned with social responsibility. And quote, the active ownership. And investment philosophies of -- I'm sorry. Broadly consistent with the objectives of socially responsible shareholders, as well as the teachings of Catholicism and Christianity.
And then they talk about social, environmental impact. That they're going along with the social and environmental philosophies of Catholic-based teaching.
GLENN: That's unbelievable.
STEPHEN: They're really trying to make sure you don't read this. And say, oh, this will be aligned with my values.
They're just pushing in a different way to manipulate you. So now they can say you're the (inaudible).
GLENN: Unbelievable. So damn evil.
CAROL: It is.
GLENN: I am looking at all of the things that are happening. Like the farmers. You know, that's -- that's kind of calmed down now over in Europe. Because the politicians said, you know what, you're right. You're right. We're not going to push those things. We're going to hold. We're going to hold. There's an election coming up this summer. But after the election, we'll bring that back up. And I think you're right.
And I think the farmers might be dumb enough to think they won. But they didn't win.
You cannot -- this is like -- any good war strategy.
You cannot let them regroup. Fall back and regroup someplace else. You must pursue them, at some point.
Because they're going to keep doing it over and over. They'll just pop up someplace else, or under a different name. Or another new way to manipulate, the reality.
And you have to -- if you don't pursue them, you have to start all over again.
CAROL: Yeah. So the farmers have obviously been very brave. And they've been leading the way.
And, yeah. I think they may have won the battle. But they haven't won the war. There was an article that came out in the Financial Times this morning. About here in the US.
About the amount of investment dollars that keeps increasing, in terms of buying up farmland. And that the average age of farmers here in the United States is 58.
I would imagine that there are similar demographics than issues going on around the world.
So they may be placating and saying, we will drop this.
But we know through the fight against natural asset companies. You know, some of these other proposals that are coming to the table. And things they're moving around. That they're finding other ways to achieve their objectives. I think the good news is, is that we are having an impact. Whether it's the farmers. Whether it's the listeners here, using their voice.
But I know it seems exhausting. But you've got to devote some part of every week, to advocacy. Because we're in a situation, where -- like you said, you cannot let up there. On the ropes. If you let them get that second win, they will come back and go back at you, with some jabs and a right hook.
GLENN: Carol Roth. Thank you so much.
God bless. We'll talk to you again soon. Carol Roth. The author of, you will own nothing.
She also has her new newsletter out.
You can find it at CarolRoth.com/news.